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(EDIT)
I sent an email to Wells Fargo about this, and here is the response I got.
"Thank you for contacting Wells Fargo. My name is <redacted>, and I am happy to assist you.
I have received your message regarding the email you received regarding the Arbitration Language change
Regretfully, there is not a way to opt out of the Arbitration agreement. The agreement has always existed, however, the language has been updated."
So, if this is to be believed (and I still need to look into it to make sure it is true), then Wells Fargo has had this crap in their TOS all along and I just didn't know about it until now. What a load of crap.
(/EDIT)
At first it was Sony and EA, then it was Microsoft and now it's...
...
...wait, what the hell? My damn bank is doing it now too?! O_O
Yeah, I got one of those emails today as well.
And, unlike Daily Kos there, I couldn't give less of a crap about their copyright on their terms of service, therefore I shall quote away. Here is the thing, in its entirety (any bolding and emphasis and such is theirs):
Effective February 15, 2012
Important Change in Terms Notice
Dispute Resolution Program: Arbitration Agreement
This Addenda amends the Consumer Account Agreement ("Agreement"). All terms
defined in the Agreement will have the same meaning when used in this Addenda.
If there is a conflict between the addenda and the Agreement, this Addenda will
control. Except as expressly amended by this Addenda, the Agreement remains in full
force and effect.
Binding arbitration
If you have a dispute with the Bank, and you are not able to resolve the dispute informally,
you and the Bank agree that upon demand by either you or the Bank, the dispute will be
resolved through the arbitration process as set forth in this part. A “dispute” is any unresolved
disagreement between you and the Bank. It includes any disagreement relating in any way
to services, accounts or matters; to your use of any of the Bank’s banking locations or facilities;
or to any means you may use to access your account(s). It includes claims based on broken
promises or contracts, torts, or other wrongful actions. It also includes statutory, common
law, and equitable claims.
“Disputes” include disagreements about the meaning, application or enforceability of this
arbitration agreement. This arbitration agreement shall survive any termination of your
account(s). YOU AGREE THAT YOU AND THE BANK ARE WAIVING THE RIGHT TO A JURY
TRIAL OR TRIAL BEFORE A JUDGE IN A PUBLIC COURT.
As the sole exception to this arbitration agreement, you and the Bank retain the right
to pursue in small claims court any dispute that is within that court’s jurisdiction. If either you
or the Bank fail to submit to binding arbitration following lawful demand, the party so failing
bears all costs and expenses incurred by the other in compelling arbitration.
Arbitration procedure; severability
You or the Bank may submit a dispute to binding arbitration at any time, regardless of
whether a lawsuit or other proceeding has been previously commenced.
NEITHER YOU NOR THE BANK SHALL BE ENTITLED TO JOIN OR CONSOLIDATE DISPUTES
BY OR AGAINST OTHERS IN ANY ARBITRATION, OR TO INCLUDE IN ANY ARBITRATION
ANY DISPUTE AS A REPRESENTATIVE OR MEMBER OF A CLASS, OR TO ACT IN ANY
ARBITRATION IN THE INTEREST OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC OR IN A PRIVATE ATTORNEY
GENERAL CAPACITY. Each arbitration, including the selection of the arbitrator(s) shall be
administered by the American Arbitration Association (AAA), or such other administrator as
you and the Bank may mutually agree to (the AAA or such other mutually agreeable
administrator to be referred to hereinafter as the “Arbitration Administrator”), according to
the Commercial Arbitration Rules and the Supplemental Procedures for Consumer Related
Disputes (“AAA Rules”). To the extent that there is any variance between the AAA Rules and
this Arbitration Agreement, this Arbitration Agreement shall control. Arbitrators must be
members of the state bar where the arbitration is held, with expertise in the substantive
laws applicable to the subject matter of the dispute. No arbitrator or other party to an
arbitration proceeding may disclose the existence, content or results thereof, except for
disclosures of information by a party required in the ordinary course of its business or by
applicable law or regulation. The parties agree that in this relationship: (1) The parties are
participating in transactions involving interstate commerce; (2) The arbitrator shall decide
any dispute regarding the enforceability of this arbitration agreement; and (3) This
agreement and any resulting arbitration are governed by the provisions of the Federal
Arbitration Act (Title 9 of the United States Code), and, to the extent any provision of that act
is inapplicable, unenforceable or invalid, the laws of the state that govern the relationship
between you and the Bank. If any of the provision of this arbitration agreement dealing with
class action, class arbitration, private attorney general action, other representative action,
joinder, or consolidation is found to be illegal or unenforceable, that invalid provision shall
not be severable and this entire arbitration agreement shall be unenforceable.
Rights preserved
This arbitration agreement does not prohibit you or the Bank from exercising any lawful
rights or using other available remedies to preserve, or obtain possession of property;
exercise self-help remedies, including setoff rights; or obtain provisional or ancillary
remedies such as injunctive relief, attachment, garnishment or the appointment of a
receiver by a court of competent jurisdiction. All statutes of limitations applicable to any
dispute apply to any arbitration between you and the Bank. The provisions of this
arbitration agreement shall survive termination or amendment of the deposit relationship
or any other relationship between you and the Bank.
Fees and expenses of arbitration
Arbitration fees shall be determined by the rules or procedures of the arbitration
administrator, unless limited by applicable law. Please check with the arbitration
administrator to determine the fees applicable to any arbitration you may file. If the
applicable law of the state in which you opened your account limits the amount of fees and
expenses to be paid by you, then no allocation of fees and expenses to you shall exceed this
limitation. Unless inconsistent with applicable law, each of us shall bear the expense of our
own attorney, expert and witness fees, regardless of which of us prevails in the arbitration.
©2011 Wells Fargo Bank, N.A. All rights reserved.
Member FDIC. 1126
Here is another article on the subject.
So yeah, unless I'm misreading the above, it looks like Wells Fargo is going to be doing the same "we changed our TOS to say you can't sue us now, suck it" thing as well. So far, it seems to only be referring to my savings account. Well, the reason I set up the savings account back in August was to get around some unrelated bullshit fees they were implementing. At the time, I was seriously considering just dropping Wells Fargo altogether and taking my money somewhere else. Now that this crap has come up, that same consideration is coming into play again.
(If I get a C&D or something over this due to the copyright concerns, then yeah, I'll take this down, but until and unless that happens, it's here to stay. People need to be made more aware of this crap, since more and more companies seem to be starting to do it, and it needs to be stopped, sooner rather than later.)
I sent an email to Wells Fargo about this, and here is the response I got.
"Thank you for contacting Wells Fargo. My name is <redacted>, and I am happy to assist you.
I have received your message regarding the email you received regarding the Arbitration Language change
Regretfully, there is not a way to opt out of the Arbitration agreement. The agreement has always existed, however, the language has been updated."
So, if this is to be believed (and I still need to look into it to make sure it is true), then Wells Fargo has had this crap in their TOS all along and I just didn't know about it until now. What a load of crap.
(/EDIT)
At first it was Sony and EA, then it was Microsoft and now it's...
...
...wait, what the hell? My damn bank is doing it now too?! O_O
Yeah, I got one of those emails today as well.
And, unlike Daily Kos there, I couldn't give less of a crap about their copyright on their terms of service, therefore I shall quote away. Here is the thing, in its entirety (any bolding and emphasis and such is theirs):
Effective February 15, 2012
Important Change in Terms Notice
Dispute Resolution Program: Arbitration Agreement
This Addenda amends the Consumer Account Agreement ("Agreement"). All terms
defined in the Agreement will have the same meaning when used in this Addenda.
If there is a conflict between the addenda and the Agreement, this Addenda will
control. Except as expressly amended by this Addenda, the Agreement remains in full
force and effect.
Binding arbitration
If you have a dispute with the Bank, and you are not able to resolve the dispute informally,
you and the Bank agree that upon demand by either you or the Bank, the dispute will be
resolved through the arbitration process as set forth in this part. A “dispute” is any unresolved
disagreement between you and the Bank. It includes any disagreement relating in any way
to services, accounts or matters; to your use of any of the Bank’s banking locations or facilities;
or to any means you may use to access your account(s). It includes claims based on broken
promises or contracts, torts, or other wrongful actions. It also includes statutory, common
law, and equitable claims.
“Disputes” include disagreements about the meaning, application or enforceability of this
arbitration agreement. This arbitration agreement shall survive any termination of your
account(s). YOU AGREE THAT YOU AND THE BANK ARE WAIVING THE RIGHT TO A JURY
TRIAL OR TRIAL BEFORE A JUDGE IN A PUBLIC COURT.
As the sole exception to this arbitration agreement, you and the Bank retain the right
to pursue in small claims court any dispute that is within that court’s jurisdiction. If either you
or the Bank fail to submit to binding arbitration following lawful demand, the party so failing
bears all costs and expenses incurred by the other in compelling arbitration.
Arbitration procedure; severability
You or the Bank may submit a dispute to binding arbitration at any time, regardless of
whether a lawsuit or other proceeding has been previously commenced.
NEITHER YOU NOR THE BANK SHALL BE ENTITLED TO JOIN OR CONSOLIDATE DISPUTES
BY OR AGAINST OTHERS IN ANY ARBITRATION, OR TO INCLUDE IN ANY ARBITRATION
ANY DISPUTE AS A REPRESENTATIVE OR MEMBER OF A CLASS, OR TO ACT IN ANY
ARBITRATION IN THE INTEREST OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC OR IN A PRIVATE ATTORNEY
GENERAL CAPACITY. Each arbitration, including the selection of the arbitrator(s) shall be
administered by the American Arbitration Association (AAA), or such other administrator as
you and the Bank may mutually agree to (the AAA or such other mutually agreeable
administrator to be referred to hereinafter as the “Arbitration Administrator”), according to
the Commercial Arbitration Rules and the Supplemental Procedures for Consumer Related
Disputes (“AAA Rules”). To the extent that there is any variance between the AAA Rules and
this Arbitration Agreement, this Arbitration Agreement shall control. Arbitrators must be
members of the state bar where the arbitration is held, with expertise in the substantive
laws applicable to the subject matter of the dispute. No arbitrator or other party to an
arbitration proceeding may disclose the existence, content or results thereof, except for
disclosures of information by a party required in the ordinary course of its business or by
applicable law or regulation. The parties agree that in this relationship: (1) The parties are
participating in transactions involving interstate commerce; (2) The arbitrator shall decide
any dispute regarding the enforceability of this arbitration agreement; and (3) This
agreement and any resulting arbitration are governed by the provisions of the Federal
Arbitration Act (Title 9 of the United States Code), and, to the extent any provision of that act
is inapplicable, unenforceable or invalid, the laws of the state that govern the relationship
between you and the Bank. If any of the provision of this arbitration agreement dealing with
class action, class arbitration, private attorney general action, other representative action,
joinder, or consolidation is found to be illegal or unenforceable, that invalid provision shall
not be severable and this entire arbitration agreement shall be unenforceable.
Rights preserved
This arbitration agreement does not prohibit you or the Bank from exercising any lawful
rights or using other available remedies to preserve, or obtain possession of property;
exercise self-help remedies, including setoff rights; or obtain provisional or ancillary
remedies such as injunctive relief, attachment, garnishment or the appointment of a
receiver by a court of competent jurisdiction. All statutes of limitations applicable to any
dispute apply to any arbitration between you and the Bank. The provisions of this
arbitration agreement shall survive termination or amendment of the deposit relationship
or any other relationship between you and the Bank.
Fees and expenses of arbitration
Arbitration fees shall be determined by the rules or procedures of the arbitration
administrator, unless limited by applicable law. Please check with the arbitration
administrator to determine the fees applicable to any arbitration you may file. If the
applicable law of the state in which you opened your account limits the amount of fees and
expenses to be paid by you, then no allocation of fees and expenses to you shall exceed this
limitation. Unless inconsistent with applicable law, each of us shall bear the expense of our
own attorney, expert and witness fees, regardless of which of us prevails in the arbitration.
©2011 Wells Fargo Bank, N.A. All rights reserved.
Member FDIC. 1126
Here is another article on the subject.
So yeah, unless I'm misreading the above, it looks like Wells Fargo is going to be doing the same "we changed our TOS to say you can't sue us now, suck it" thing as well. So far, it seems to only be referring to my savings account. Well, the reason I set up the savings account back in August was to get around some unrelated bullshit fees they were implementing. At the time, I was seriously considering just dropping Wells Fargo altogether and taking my money somewhere else. Now that this crap has come up, that same consideration is coming into play again.
(If I get a C&D or something over this due to the copyright concerns, then yeah, I'll take this down, but until and unless that happens, it's here to stay. People need to be made more aware of this crap, since more and more companies seem to be starting to do it, and it needs to be stopped, sooner rather than later.)
