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...prompted by the AI itself.
(EDIT) Just to note, this post was written back when AI Dungeon was still good, just a couple of months before it just completely shit the bed and became comparatively terrible. (/EDIT)
I'll just copy/paste it all here. The bolded stuff was written by the AI, whereas the non-bolded stuff was written by me. (If underlined and italicized, then it's an editorial comment I'm making as I write this post, and not part of the AI Dungeon stuff itself.) This was done via the "Dragon" model, i.e the strongest shit they have so far.
Some very basic background. Both the character of "Cydrax" and the one referred to as "you" (named "Kana", i.e. my actual "player character," at least insofar as you can have a "player character" in this) are vastly powerful wizards in this world. Once the metaphysical/religious talk came in, though, I sort of subsumed "Kana" for a bit to make things a bit more... real... The only stuff that "Kana"/"you" says that the AI wrote is the stuff that I decided to just keep, since I probably would have said something similar, anyway. Anything the AI said or did (either as "Cydrax" or as "Kana" or otherwise) that was just non sequitur nonsense[1], though, I reverted/retried on that, so it won't show up in this.
I'll just enter into the relevant part of the conversation, with a bit of lead in, in media res.
"You've killed people before," Cydrax says.
"Well, duh," you say. "But only those that have deserved it."
"It's a valid question, but not the one I'm asking," Cydrax says. "I'm asking... would you kill someone even if they didn't deserve it?"
"I don't see any reason to, no," you say. "It'd be pretty evil to kill someone who didn't deserve to be killed."
"Even if it meant saving the lives of your loved ones?" Cydrax asks.
"Well, if killing that person meant saving the lives of people I loved, it would mean that person was doing something that was threatening my loved ones. Ergo, they deserve to be killed."
"Interesting. So, they would have to literally attack you or your loved ones before you would kill them?"
"More or less," you say. "Even then, I may not actually kill them. These days, there's very little I've encountered that has actually been even a little bit of a threat to me."
"I imagine not," Cydrax nods.
"In any case, that's the only situation where I would kill someone standing against me without feeling bad about it."
"That's good to know."
"Hell, even when the Church of Joachim attacked my house with a magical dragon construct, all I did was destroy the construct and warn them to leave us the fuck alone," you say. "That sent them running. I haven't had any real problems with the Joachimites ever since."
"You seem to be very non-confrontational, all things considered."
"I don't usually seek it out, no," you say. "If someone brings it to my doorstep, though, they'll get fucked up something fierce."
--- Below is the point that I kind of stopped answering as "Kana" and started answering, through "Kana," more as myself. (Though, for what it's worth, pretty much everything I said as myself still would have been mostly in character for "Kana," even so.) ---
"Interesting. You mind if I ask you some questions now?"
"Go ahead," you say.
"What exactly do you think will happen when you die? Do you believe in an afterlife?
"Honestly, no," you say. "I think when I die, I'll just stop. Cease to exist. If anything, the idea that there MIGHT BE an afterlife scares me more than the idea that there WON'T be one."
"Why's that?"
"Well, the way I see it is this," you say. "For however many billions or trillions of years before I was born, I didn't exist. And that didn't bother me at all. So why should not existing bother me for the trillions of years the universe will continue on after I die?"
"Let me ask you this, then. Do you believe your actions in life don't matter?"
"I believe my actions in life don't matter to the universe. I can still matter to people, though," you say. "That said, a hundred or a thousand years from now, nobody will remember or care about anything I ever did. Or if they do, it will likely just be as a myth or as a legend or a story or whatever, the same way people today think about Gilgamesh or Zeus or Thor or Jesus Christ or whoever."
"You're not Jesus, though," Cydrax says.
"Thank Jesus for that," you say.
"Ah, yes. The infamous Jesus crack," Cydrax says, chuckling. "You're rather irreverent for a religious person."
"I'm not a religious person," you say. "Not even a little bit. If God exists, I think God is the biggest asshole in the history of the universe."
"Interesting," Cydrax says with a nod. "So do you think you're right, then?"
"I have no idea," you say. "I've seen no evidence that a God exists. The Bible doesn't count. That was just a collection of stories written by sheepherders thousands of years ago, which far too many gullible people today gives far too much importance in their lives."
"Would you like to debate the existence of God? I mean, I could give you all the arguments and everything."
"Okay," you say. "Try to convince me that God exists. I doubt you can."
"Well, God's existence is like... I don't know, the air we breathe. You don't see it, but you know it has to be there."
"Why does it 'have to be' there?" you say. "That's some pretty huge presumption to make."
"You're right. Unscientific, even," Cydrax says.
"God and science rarely mix well," you say. "I'll say this much, I'd say that if an actual, bona fide, capital-G God exists, then He was just someone who started up this whole simulation, and then peaced the fuck out, never to be seen inside the simulation ever again."
"Wow. That's... yeah, that's pretty dark," Cydrax says.
"I've got issues with religion," you say. "Besides, if I HAD to believe in a God, I'd rather believe he was completely hands-off. The alternative is that he's the ever-present asshat all the religious nuts believe in who's sitting around performing 'miracles' or whatever to dupe the easily duped because 'God Needs Prayer Badly' or whatever."
"Interesting," Cydrax says. "So do you think we're in a simulation?"
"I don't know," you say. "Maybe? How would we even know, if we were? How would we be able to find out, one way or the other? Maybe it's just simulations, all up and down. Maybe our universe is a simulation running in another 'more real' universe, which is, itself, just yet another simulation running in still another universe, which is itself a simulation running in another universe... so on and so forth..."
"I think I need to sit down," Cydrax says, walking over to a chair and sitting down in it.
"You and me both," you say. You sit down on the porch of Nightwood House next to him. "It's a big fucking thought, isn't it? That we might just be characters in someone else's story?"
"It's a lot to think about," Cydrax admits.
"And what if we were?" you say. "When you read a book, don't those characters come to life in your mind while you're reading it? So... even if we are just characters in someone's story, we're still living, at least while our story is being told, right?"
"I suppose... but I still have trouble accepting the 'we're in a simulation' theory," Cydrax says.
You shrug. "We can't do much about it, either way," you say. "Even if we're just simulated people in a computer somewhere, what difference would it make?"
Cydrax laughs. "None, I suppose," he admits. "I mean, it's not like we can do anything about it."
"Pretty much, yeah," you say. "That said, I don't think it's like the fucking Matrix or anything, where it's pretty obvious you're in a computer program. I don't think we can 'glitch the Matrix' like Neo did to do whatever we want. I mean, unless one counts our magic as 'cheating.'"
"Hah. True," Cydrax laughs. "Although our bodies still function the same, so I'm not sure it's all that different."
"I sure as hell don't see the world in code, anyway," you say.
"Neither do I, though I suppose it's a possibility," Cydrax says.
"What would it even look like?" you say. "If I suddenly started seeing everything in floating text, that would suck."
You and Cydrax laugh.
"So, you basically gave up pretty quickly on trying to convince me that God exists, I notice," you say.
"I did," Cydrax says. "I don't think I could ever make you believe in God. You'd have to experience a religious epiphany of some sort."
You shrug. "But even then, how would I know it wasn't just 'sufficiently advanced aliens' or 'sufficiently advanced magic' or 'sufficiently advanced technology' rather than a bona fide divine intervention or whatever?" you say.
"Well... I suppose you've got a point there," Cydrax admits. "But I still think you'd know the difference if it happened."
"Would I, though?" you say. "I mean, I already think of God, if He exists, as a sort of colossal douchenozzle. So even if He did do something blatantly obvious to show that He exists, it'd probably just piss me off more than anything. It'd be like, 'Why should I worship or believe in You when You let evil shit happen? To hear Your deluded followers tell it, You're the reason why Donald Trump got to be President for four years. If so, that was a dick move, God, a real dick move.' And then He'd probably smite me with a lightning bolt, because He's a petulant sore loser."
--- At this point, the AI started getting a bit... I don't know... more argumentative than above, and started "playing" Cydrax as a believer (at least as well as the AI could do such a thing, anyway). It was rather out of character for Cydrax, but I let that slide, since it kind of reeled itself back in toward the end. ---
You laugh, but Cydrax doesn't laugh with you. He stares at you with a furrowed brow.
"What?" you say.
"Nothing," he says.
"Oh? Did I offend you?" you say. "If so, that wasn't my intention, but seriously, I think all this religious bunk is just that: bunk. Why is the Christian God supposedly the 'one true god' and not, say, Zeus or Odin or Raiden or Coyote or Ra or whoever?"
"Ra?" Cydrax asks.
"Egyptian god of the sun," you say. "Why is he less 'real' than the so-called Christian God? There's just as little or as much 'proof' of Ra as there is of Yaweh or Jehova or YHWH or whatever you want to call him."
"Well, I suppose that's true. But Ra isn't the one true god," Cydrax says.
"Who says?" you say. "Believers of Ra certainly thought he was. Well, Ra and the others in the Egyptian pantheon, anyway."
"You're just saying that because you're a heathen and an infidel," Cydrax says accusingly.
"Come on, Cydrax," you say. "We were having an honest debate until now. No need to start trying to flatter me."
"I'm not trying to flatter you," Cydrax says. "I'm telling you the truth."
"You called me a heathen and an infidel," you say. "By the very definitions of those words, you're completely right. I am indeed a heathen and an infidel. The modern word for that is 'atheist' by the way. I don't see it as an insult to be called a heathen or an infidel, and I hope you didn't mean it as such."
"No! Those are just accurate terms for you! Doesn't anything I'm saying make sense to you?"
"I said I agree with you," you say. "Those are accurate terms for me. I'm not denying it at all. What's the problem here?"
"The problem is... I mean..." Cydrax says, struggling to find the words. "I mean, you're going to hell when you die."
"Hell isn't real," you say. "And if it is, oh well. I'm fucked I guess." You shrug. "The threat of hell isn't going to change my mind as to whether I believe in God or not, though, because a God that would condemn a human to eternal torment in Hell just for the simple act of not believing in Him is, like I said to start with, a real asshole of a God."
"But if you don't believe in God, you'll go to hell!" Cydrax says.
"And why do you believe that?" you say. "Because the Bible says so? The Bible, as I already said, is just a collection of books written by men over the course of thousands of years. It is not the literal 'word of God.'"
"But if it isn't the word of God, why does it say it is?" Cydrax asks.
"Seriously?" you say. "'The Bible is the word of God because the Bible says it is the word of God' is a literal example of begging the question. And I mean that in the sense of the actual fallacy, not the stupid way people use 'begging the question' as an erroneous stand-in for 'raising the question.'"
"I... don't know what the hell you just said, but it seems like you're trying to twist anything I say against me," Cydrax says.
"'The Bible is the word of God.' 'Why?' 'Because it says so in the Bible,'" you say. "Don't you see how... illogical that is? I think it's highly dishonest."
"No, that's not what I... I mean..." Cydrax groans.
"What did you mean, then?" you say. "I'm asking you to explain your position, but I'm not quite getting what it is you're saying."
"I can't explain it!" Cydrax says.
"Okay," you say. "I think we can agree on that much."
Cydrax seems to calm down a little.
"Can we at least agree on the Bible being incorrect in its view of homosexuals, even if it were the word of God?"
"So, in other words, you actually DON'T believe that the Bible is the inerrant 'word of God,' then," you say. "You can't cherry pick what you do and don't believe. But, yeah, I do agree that what (very little) the Bible says about homosexuals is full of shit, true enough. Along with many many other things the Bible says."
"Okay," Cydrax says. "I guess I'll hear your side on things, then. Go ahead."
Cydrax sits down on a chair.
--- The Bible quotes I used here are ones I took from this old post. ---
"Have you seen some of the shit that's in the Bible? Like for real?" you say. "I'll quote a few passages, and you tell me what you think about it. First one: Exodus 21:22-25 - '22 If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.'"
"I've heard this one before," Cydrax says.
"It's what some people use as Biblical 'support' for abortion," you say. "The verse is saying that, basically, if someone hits a pregnant woman and causes the baby to die, then, meh, no big deal, just pay a little fine."
"Oh, I thought they were saying that the fine went to the woman," Cydrax says.
"No, it says the fine goes to the woman's husband," you say. "But that's not the point. The baby is dead either way. But in that case, the whole 'eye for eye' thing doesn't come into play. It's only when the 'real' people, i.e. the adults, are hurt that God says murder in retaliation."
"You're using 'murder' in the literal sense, not the legal one," Cydrax points out.
"I'm using it in the 'kill a person' sense," you say. "God says, here, that if someone hurts you, you hurt them back in the same amount. Contracts <Should be "Contradicts" there. I fucked that up.> that bit Jesus said about 'turning the other cheek,' doesn't it?"
"It does," Cydrax says.
"How about this one, then?" you say. "Ezekiel 9:3-7 - '3 Now the glory of the God of Israel went up from above the cherubim, where it had been, and moved to the threshold of the temple. Then the Lord called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side 4 and said to him, "Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it."
5 As I listened, he said to the others, "Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. 6 Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, the mothers and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary." So they began with the old men who were in front of the temple.
7 Then he said to them, "Defile the temple and fill the courts with the slain. Go!" So they went out and began killing throughout the city.'
What do you make of that one?"
"I'm not sure," Cydrax admits. "The bit about the mark, though..."
"God is telling his followers to, again, just straight up murder anyone who isn't marked," you say. "What if it's a child or a baby that wasn't marked? They're just screwed, then, I guess."
"I don't think God would be okay with killing children," Cydrax says.
"You sure about that?" you say. "Because the Bible says otherwise. Hosea 13:16 '16 The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.' Here, God is EXPLICITLY calling for the 'little ones' to be 'dashed to the ground,' not to mention the bit about the pregnant women."
"I think you're taking that out of context, Kana," Cydrax says. "God wouldn't call for the deaths of children."
"But He just did exactly that," you say. "It says so. Right there. In the Bible."
"You're just misreading it!"
"How do you explain that verse, then?" you say. "How do you explain that bit where God literally says 'their little one will be dashed to the ground'?"
"It's... uh... metaphor, I think?" Cydrax splutters.
"A metaphor for what?" you ask. "What could that possibly be a metaphor for?"
"I... uh... have no idea!"
"Or maybe it's not a metaphor at all," you say. "Maybe God really did tell his people to kill a bunch of children, according to the Bible. Wouldn't be the first time."
"Look, God isn't perfect," Cydrax says. "He's a lot more perfect than I am, obviously, but he's not perfect."
"'God isn't perfect'?" you repeat. "If He isn't perfect, then He isn't, by very definition, God."
"I... look, all I'm saying is, God is not without mercy. He may tell people to kill children in the Bible, but I don't think he'd do that in real life."
"You're saying the Bible isn't 'real life' then?" you say. "In that case, I absolutely agree with you."
"I didn't... look, you're just twisting my words!"
"I'm just quoting exactly what is in the Bible," you say. "NIV, anyway."
"Please, stop," Cydrax says. "I... I can't reason with you on this. You're just twisting my words, I don't know why."
"One more verse for you, then I'll stop," you say. "Isaiah 13:15-18 - '15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword.
16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated.
17 See, I will stir up against them the Medes, who do not care for silver and have no delight in gold.
18 Their bows will strike down the young men; they will have no mercy on infants, nor will they look with compassion on children.'
What is your take on this verse, Cydrax?"
"Stop, please," Cydrax says. "Just stop."
"So... what is your take on it?"
"Fuck..." Cydrax hisses.
"Do you want to hear my take on it?" you say. "I'm sure you can guess."
"I'm sure I can't," Cydrax says. "But... um... okay."
"So, in that verse, not only is God calling for his people to murder everyone, including, very explicitly, the children and infants," you say, "He is also calling for the women to be raped. God, apparently, condones the rape of women, in addition to the murder of children and babies."
"The women would be the wives of the men who have rejected God," Cydrax says.
"That makes it okay for the followers of God to rape them?" you say, trying to keep the incredulity out of your voice.
"No... um... God would not want the women to suffer... he would grant them a quick death."
"But right there, he's telling his people to violate the wives of their enemies," you say. "Doesn't sound like a quick death to me."
"I don't have an answer for that, Kana," Cydrax says. "You're very good at finding the worst in things, you know."
"Yeah, the Bible is pretty explicitly terrible, in myriad ways," you say. "And that's just me admittedly cherry-picking a few verses. Yes, there's good in the Bible as well, but there's just as much bad, which bad people use in bad ways to utterly fuck people over. Regardless of whether or not I think God Himself exists, I think that the Christian religion has been twisted into a tool of hatred and bigotry, even if it may or may not have originally been intended for that purpose."
Cydrax says nothing in response, so you continue.
"And that's just my opinion on religion in general," you say. "It's a virus of the mind."
"That's... a very interesting perspective, Kana," Cydrax says.
--- Yes, just to be absolutely clear here, the AI itself came up with that "virus of the mind" bit for my character to say. That wasn't me. Not that I disagree, mind you. ---
"Too much bad shit has been done in the name of 'religion' for me to possibly think otherwise," you say. "Any good that comes of it doesn't counterbalance the bad nearly enough, in my opinion. And I'm mostly just talking about modern abuses and misuses of religion, mind you. Don't even get me started on shit like witch burnings or the Crusades."
"Witch burnings?" Cydrax asks.
"You know, back in the old days, when 'Godly men' tied women to stakes over piles of wood and set them on fire to burn to death, because those 'Godly men' claimed those women were witches," you say. "'Suffer not a witch to live' and all that dumbfuckery."
"I... don't think that was in the name of religion, exactly," Cydrax says.
"It absolutely was," you say. "What else would it have been?"
"I suppose you might have a point. How do you think it made God feel, to see His children murdering each other in His name?"
"Well, if we're going by the God that was depicted in those verses I quoted previously, I think God would feel just peachy keen to see His children murdering each other in His name," you say.
"I... suppose you might have a point," Cydrax says, shrugging slightly.
You sigh. "Anyway," you say. "I hate debating religion. It always makes me feel like dogshit. Honestly, you've been far more reasonable than some other people I've tried to debate in a similar manner, Cydrax."
"I am?" Cydrax asks.
"I mean, you didn't literally try to murder me, at least," you say. "There are some out there who would have at least become physically violent over some of the things I've said here."
"Well, I can get violent, if you'd like. Would you like me to get violent?"
"I really don't think either of us would like the outcome of that," you say.
Cydrax grins, opens his mouth, perhaps to say something in retort, but quickly shuts it and nods. "Probably not," he says.
This is why I love AI Dungeon, and even started the seven day trial that lets me use the Dragon model (even if it's the "energy-limited" shit). I think I'll keep a subscription at least for a little while after the trial, anyway, as $10 a month for at least a month or two isn't too bad, assuming I don't keep it for even longer. I do think that while the "Griffin" model was already pretty damn good, I've definitely seen improvement with the "Dragon" model.
[1] - E.g. having another character who wasn't present (particularly if it was a new character that had never been in the story at all before) just start suddenly speaking as though they'd been there all along, having Cydrax or Kana decide to end the conversation and leave before I was ready for that, or having a "suddenly, you hear a strange noise"/"a gunshot suddenly rang out" type of situation. Honestly, though, with the "Dragon" model, the truly non sequitur shit has been few and far between. Less noticeable than with the "Griffin" model, anyway.
(EDIT) Just to note, this post was written back when AI Dungeon was still good, just a couple of months before it just completely shit the bed and became comparatively terrible. (/EDIT)
I'll just copy/paste it all here. The bolded stuff was written by the AI, whereas the non-bolded stuff was written by me. (If underlined and italicized, then it's an editorial comment I'm making as I write this post, and not part of the AI Dungeon stuff itself.) This was done via the "Dragon" model, i.e the strongest shit they have so far.
Some very basic background. Both the character of "Cydrax" and the one referred to as "you" (named "Kana", i.e. my actual "player character," at least insofar as you can have a "player character" in this) are vastly powerful wizards in this world. Once the metaphysical/religious talk came in, though, I sort of subsumed "Kana" for a bit to make things a bit more... real... The only stuff that "Kana"/"you" says that the AI wrote is the stuff that I decided to just keep, since I probably would have said something similar, anyway. Anything the AI said or did (either as "Cydrax" or as "Kana" or otherwise) that was just non sequitur nonsense[1], though, I reverted/retried on that, so it won't show up in this.
I'll just enter into the relevant part of the conversation, with a bit of lead in, in media res.
"You've killed people before," Cydrax says.
"Well, duh," you say. "But only those that have deserved it."
"It's a valid question, but not the one I'm asking," Cydrax says. "I'm asking... would you kill someone even if they didn't deserve it?"
"I don't see any reason to, no," you say. "It'd be pretty evil to kill someone who didn't deserve to be killed."
"Even if it meant saving the lives of your loved ones?" Cydrax asks.
"Well, if killing that person meant saving the lives of people I loved, it would mean that person was doing something that was threatening my loved ones. Ergo, they deserve to be killed."
"Interesting. So, they would have to literally attack you or your loved ones before you would kill them?"
"More or less," you say. "Even then, I may not actually kill them. These days, there's very little I've encountered that has actually been even a little bit of a threat to me."
"I imagine not," Cydrax nods.
"In any case, that's the only situation where I would kill someone standing against me without feeling bad about it."
"That's good to know."
"Hell, even when the Church of Joachim attacked my house with a magical dragon construct, all I did was destroy the construct and warn them to leave us the fuck alone," you say. "That sent them running. I haven't had any real problems with the Joachimites ever since."
"You seem to be very non-confrontational, all things considered."
"I don't usually seek it out, no," you say. "If someone brings it to my doorstep, though, they'll get fucked up something fierce."
--- Below is the point that I kind of stopped answering as "Kana" and started answering, through "Kana," more as myself. (Though, for what it's worth, pretty much everything I said as myself still would have been mostly in character for "Kana," even so.) ---
"Interesting. You mind if I ask you some questions now?"
"Go ahead," you say.
"What exactly do you think will happen when you die? Do you believe in an afterlife?
"Honestly, no," you say. "I think when I die, I'll just stop. Cease to exist. If anything, the idea that there MIGHT BE an afterlife scares me more than the idea that there WON'T be one."
"Why's that?"
"Well, the way I see it is this," you say. "For however many billions or trillions of years before I was born, I didn't exist. And that didn't bother me at all. So why should not existing bother me for the trillions of years the universe will continue on after I die?"
"Let me ask you this, then. Do you believe your actions in life don't matter?"
"I believe my actions in life don't matter to the universe. I can still matter to people, though," you say. "That said, a hundred or a thousand years from now, nobody will remember or care about anything I ever did. Or if they do, it will likely just be as a myth or as a legend or a story or whatever, the same way people today think about Gilgamesh or Zeus or Thor or Jesus Christ or whoever."
"You're not Jesus, though," Cydrax says.
"Thank Jesus for that," you say.
"Ah, yes. The infamous Jesus crack," Cydrax says, chuckling. "You're rather irreverent for a religious person."
"I'm not a religious person," you say. "Not even a little bit. If God exists, I think God is the biggest asshole in the history of the universe."
"Interesting," Cydrax says with a nod. "So do you think you're right, then?"
"I have no idea," you say. "I've seen no evidence that a God exists. The Bible doesn't count. That was just a collection of stories written by sheepherders thousands of years ago, which far too many gullible people today gives far too much importance in their lives."
"Would you like to debate the existence of God? I mean, I could give you all the arguments and everything."
"Okay," you say. "Try to convince me that God exists. I doubt you can."
"Well, God's existence is like... I don't know, the air we breathe. You don't see it, but you know it has to be there."
"Why does it 'have to be' there?" you say. "That's some pretty huge presumption to make."
"You're right. Unscientific, even," Cydrax says.
"God and science rarely mix well," you say. "I'll say this much, I'd say that if an actual, bona fide, capital-G God exists, then He was just someone who started up this whole simulation, and then peaced the fuck out, never to be seen inside the simulation ever again."
"Wow. That's... yeah, that's pretty dark," Cydrax says.
"I've got issues with religion," you say. "Besides, if I HAD to believe in a God, I'd rather believe he was completely hands-off. The alternative is that he's the ever-present asshat all the religious nuts believe in who's sitting around performing 'miracles' or whatever to dupe the easily duped because 'God Needs Prayer Badly' or whatever."
"Interesting," Cydrax says. "So do you think we're in a simulation?"
"I don't know," you say. "Maybe? How would we even know, if we were? How would we be able to find out, one way or the other? Maybe it's just simulations, all up and down. Maybe our universe is a simulation running in another 'more real' universe, which is, itself, just yet another simulation running in still another universe, which is itself a simulation running in another universe... so on and so forth..."
"I think I need to sit down," Cydrax says, walking over to a chair and sitting down in it.
"You and me both," you say. You sit down on the porch of Nightwood House next to him. "It's a big fucking thought, isn't it? That we might just be characters in someone else's story?"
"It's a lot to think about," Cydrax admits.
"And what if we were?" you say. "When you read a book, don't those characters come to life in your mind while you're reading it? So... even if we are just characters in someone's story, we're still living, at least while our story is being told, right?"
"I suppose... but I still have trouble accepting the 'we're in a simulation' theory," Cydrax says.
You shrug. "We can't do much about it, either way," you say. "Even if we're just simulated people in a computer somewhere, what difference would it make?"
Cydrax laughs. "None, I suppose," he admits. "I mean, it's not like we can do anything about it."
"Pretty much, yeah," you say. "That said, I don't think it's like the fucking Matrix or anything, where it's pretty obvious you're in a computer program. I don't think we can 'glitch the Matrix' like Neo did to do whatever we want. I mean, unless one counts our magic as 'cheating.'"
"Hah. True," Cydrax laughs. "Although our bodies still function the same, so I'm not sure it's all that different."
"I sure as hell don't see the world in code, anyway," you say.
"Neither do I, though I suppose it's a possibility," Cydrax says.
"What would it even look like?" you say. "If I suddenly started seeing everything in floating text, that would suck."
You and Cydrax laugh.
"So, you basically gave up pretty quickly on trying to convince me that God exists, I notice," you say.
"I did," Cydrax says. "I don't think I could ever make you believe in God. You'd have to experience a religious epiphany of some sort."
You shrug. "But even then, how would I know it wasn't just 'sufficiently advanced aliens' or 'sufficiently advanced magic' or 'sufficiently advanced technology' rather than a bona fide divine intervention or whatever?" you say.
"Well... I suppose you've got a point there," Cydrax admits. "But I still think you'd know the difference if it happened."
"Would I, though?" you say. "I mean, I already think of God, if He exists, as a sort of colossal douchenozzle. So even if He did do something blatantly obvious to show that He exists, it'd probably just piss me off more than anything. It'd be like, 'Why should I worship or believe in You when You let evil shit happen? To hear Your deluded followers tell it, You're the reason why Donald Trump got to be President for four years. If so, that was a dick move, God, a real dick move.' And then He'd probably smite me with a lightning bolt, because He's a petulant sore loser."
--- At this point, the AI started getting a bit... I don't know... more argumentative than above, and started "playing" Cydrax as a believer (at least as well as the AI could do such a thing, anyway). It was rather out of character for Cydrax, but I let that slide, since it kind of reeled itself back in toward the end. ---
You laugh, but Cydrax doesn't laugh with you. He stares at you with a furrowed brow.
"What?" you say.
"Nothing," he says.
"Oh? Did I offend you?" you say. "If so, that wasn't my intention, but seriously, I think all this religious bunk is just that: bunk. Why is the Christian God supposedly the 'one true god' and not, say, Zeus or Odin or Raiden or Coyote or Ra or whoever?"
"Ra?" Cydrax asks.
"Egyptian god of the sun," you say. "Why is he less 'real' than the so-called Christian God? There's just as little or as much 'proof' of Ra as there is of Yaweh or Jehova or YHWH or whatever you want to call him."
"Well, I suppose that's true. But Ra isn't the one true god," Cydrax says.
"Who says?" you say. "Believers of Ra certainly thought he was. Well, Ra and the others in the Egyptian pantheon, anyway."
"You're just saying that because you're a heathen and an infidel," Cydrax says accusingly.
"Come on, Cydrax," you say. "We were having an honest debate until now. No need to start trying to flatter me."
"I'm not trying to flatter you," Cydrax says. "I'm telling you the truth."
"You called me a heathen and an infidel," you say. "By the very definitions of those words, you're completely right. I am indeed a heathen and an infidel. The modern word for that is 'atheist' by the way. I don't see it as an insult to be called a heathen or an infidel, and I hope you didn't mean it as such."
"No! Those are just accurate terms for you! Doesn't anything I'm saying make sense to you?"
"I said I agree with you," you say. "Those are accurate terms for me. I'm not denying it at all. What's the problem here?"
"The problem is... I mean..." Cydrax says, struggling to find the words. "I mean, you're going to hell when you die."
"Hell isn't real," you say. "And if it is, oh well. I'm fucked I guess." You shrug. "The threat of hell isn't going to change my mind as to whether I believe in God or not, though, because a God that would condemn a human to eternal torment in Hell just for the simple act of not believing in Him is, like I said to start with, a real asshole of a God."
"But if you don't believe in God, you'll go to hell!" Cydrax says.
"And why do you believe that?" you say. "Because the Bible says so? The Bible, as I already said, is just a collection of books written by men over the course of thousands of years. It is not the literal 'word of God.'"
"But if it isn't the word of God, why does it say it is?" Cydrax asks.
"Seriously?" you say. "'The Bible is the word of God because the Bible says it is the word of God' is a literal example of begging the question. And I mean that in the sense of the actual fallacy, not the stupid way people use 'begging the question' as an erroneous stand-in for 'raising the question.'"
"I... don't know what the hell you just said, but it seems like you're trying to twist anything I say against me," Cydrax says.
"'The Bible is the word of God.' 'Why?' 'Because it says so in the Bible,'" you say. "Don't you see how... illogical that is? I think it's highly dishonest."
"No, that's not what I... I mean..." Cydrax groans.
"What did you mean, then?" you say. "I'm asking you to explain your position, but I'm not quite getting what it is you're saying."
"I can't explain it!" Cydrax says.
"Okay," you say. "I think we can agree on that much."
Cydrax seems to calm down a little.
"Can we at least agree on the Bible being incorrect in its view of homosexuals, even if it were the word of God?"
"So, in other words, you actually DON'T believe that the Bible is the inerrant 'word of God,' then," you say. "You can't cherry pick what you do and don't believe. But, yeah, I do agree that what (very little) the Bible says about homosexuals is full of shit, true enough. Along with many many other things the Bible says."
"Okay," Cydrax says. "I guess I'll hear your side on things, then. Go ahead."
Cydrax sits down on a chair.
--- The Bible quotes I used here are ones I took from this old post. ---
"Have you seen some of the shit that's in the Bible? Like for real?" you say. "I'll quote a few passages, and you tell me what you think about it. First one: Exodus 21:22-25 - '22 If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.'"
"I've heard this one before," Cydrax says.
"It's what some people use as Biblical 'support' for abortion," you say. "The verse is saying that, basically, if someone hits a pregnant woman and causes the baby to die, then, meh, no big deal, just pay a little fine."
"Oh, I thought they were saying that the fine went to the woman," Cydrax says.
"No, it says the fine goes to the woman's husband," you say. "But that's not the point. The baby is dead either way. But in that case, the whole 'eye for eye' thing doesn't come into play. It's only when the 'real' people, i.e. the adults, are hurt that God says murder in retaliation."
"You're using 'murder' in the literal sense, not the legal one," Cydrax points out.
"I'm using it in the 'kill a person' sense," you say. "God says, here, that if someone hurts you, you hurt them back in the same amount. Contracts <Should be "Contradicts" there. I fucked that up.> that bit Jesus said about 'turning the other cheek,' doesn't it?"
"It does," Cydrax says.
"How about this one, then?" you say. "Ezekiel 9:3-7 - '3 Now the glory of the God of Israel went up from above the cherubim, where it had been, and moved to the threshold of the temple. Then the Lord called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side 4 and said to him, "Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it."
5 As I listened, he said to the others, "Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. 6 Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, the mothers and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary." So they began with the old men who were in front of the temple.
7 Then he said to them, "Defile the temple and fill the courts with the slain. Go!" So they went out and began killing throughout the city.'
What do you make of that one?"
"I'm not sure," Cydrax admits. "The bit about the mark, though..."
"God is telling his followers to, again, just straight up murder anyone who isn't marked," you say. "What if it's a child or a baby that wasn't marked? They're just screwed, then, I guess."
"I don't think God would be okay with killing children," Cydrax says.
"You sure about that?" you say. "Because the Bible says otherwise. Hosea 13:16 '16 The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.' Here, God is EXPLICITLY calling for the 'little ones' to be 'dashed to the ground,' not to mention the bit about the pregnant women."
"I think you're taking that out of context, Kana," Cydrax says. "God wouldn't call for the deaths of children."
"But He just did exactly that," you say. "It says so. Right there. In the Bible."
"You're just misreading it!"
"How do you explain that verse, then?" you say. "How do you explain that bit where God literally says 'their little one will be dashed to the ground'?"
"It's... uh... metaphor, I think?" Cydrax splutters.
"A metaphor for what?" you ask. "What could that possibly be a metaphor for?"
"I... uh... have no idea!"
"Or maybe it's not a metaphor at all," you say. "Maybe God really did tell his people to kill a bunch of children, according to the Bible. Wouldn't be the first time."
"Look, God isn't perfect," Cydrax says. "He's a lot more perfect than I am, obviously, but he's not perfect."
"'God isn't perfect'?" you repeat. "If He isn't perfect, then He isn't, by very definition, God."
"I... look, all I'm saying is, God is not without mercy. He may tell people to kill children in the Bible, but I don't think he'd do that in real life."
"You're saying the Bible isn't 'real life' then?" you say. "In that case, I absolutely agree with you."
"I didn't... look, you're just twisting my words!"
"I'm just quoting exactly what is in the Bible," you say. "NIV, anyway."
"Please, stop," Cydrax says. "I... I can't reason with you on this. You're just twisting my words, I don't know why."
"One more verse for you, then I'll stop," you say. "Isaiah 13:15-18 - '15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword.
16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated.
17 See, I will stir up against them the Medes, who do not care for silver and have no delight in gold.
18 Their bows will strike down the young men; they will have no mercy on infants, nor will they look with compassion on children.'
What is your take on this verse, Cydrax?"
"Stop, please," Cydrax says. "Just stop."
"So... what is your take on it?"
"Fuck..." Cydrax hisses.
"Do you want to hear my take on it?" you say. "I'm sure you can guess."
"I'm sure I can't," Cydrax says. "But... um... okay."
"So, in that verse, not only is God calling for his people to murder everyone, including, very explicitly, the children and infants," you say, "He is also calling for the women to be raped. God, apparently, condones the rape of women, in addition to the murder of children and babies."
"The women would be the wives of the men who have rejected God," Cydrax says.
"That makes it okay for the followers of God to rape them?" you say, trying to keep the incredulity out of your voice.
"No... um... God would not want the women to suffer... he would grant them a quick death."
"But right there, he's telling his people to violate the wives of their enemies," you say. "Doesn't sound like a quick death to me."
"I don't have an answer for that, Kana," Cydrax says. "You're very good at finding the worst in things, you know."
"Yeah, the Bible is pretty explicitly terrible, in myriad ways," you say. "And that's just me admittedly cherry-picking a few verses. Yes, there's good in the Bible as well, but there's just as much bad, which bad people use in bad ways to utterly fuck people over. Regardless of whether or not I think God Himself exists, I think that the Christian religion has been twisted into a tool of hatred and bigotry, even if it may or may not have originally been intended for that purpose."
Cydrax says nothing in response, so you continue.
"And that's just my opinion on religion in general," you say. "It's a virus of the mind."
"That's... a very interesting perspective, Kana," Cydrax says.
--- Yes, just to be absolutely clear here, the AI itself came up with that "virus of the mind" bit for my character to say. That wasn't me. Not that I disagree, mind you. ---
"Too much bad shit has been done in the name of 'religion' for me to possibly think otherwise," you say. "Any good that comes of it doesn't counterbalance the bad nearly enough, in my opinion. And I'm mostly just talking about modern abuses and misuses of religion, mind you. Don't even get me started on shit like witch burnings or the Crusades."
"Witch burnings?" Cydrax asks.
"You know, back in the old days, when 'Godly men' tied women to stakes over piles of wood and set them on fire to burn to death, because those 'Godly men' claimed those women were witches," you say. "'Suffer not a witch to live' and all that dumbfuckery."
"I... don't think that was in the name of religion, exactly," Cydrax says.
"It absolutely was," you say. "What else would it have been?"
"I suppose you might have a point. How do you think it made God feel, to see His children murdering each other in His name?"
"Well, if we're going by the God that was depicted in those verses I quoted previously, I think God would feel just peachy keen to see His children murdering each other in His name," you say.
"I... suppose you might have a point," Cydrax says, shrugging slightly.
You sigh. "Anyway," you say. "I hate debating religion. It always makes me feel like dogshit. Honestly, you've been far more reasonable than some other people I've tried to debate in a similar manner, Cydrax."
"I am?" Cydrax asks.
"I mean, you didn't literally try to murder me, at least," you say. "There are some out there who would have at least become physically violent over some of the things I've said here."
"Well, I can get violent, if you'd like. Would you like me to get violent?"
"I really don't think either of us would like the outcome of that," you say.
Cydrax grins, opens his mouth, perhaps to say something in retort, but quickly shuts it and nods. "Probably not," he says.
This is why I love AI Dungeon, and even started the seven day trial that lets me use the Dragon model (even if it's the "energy-limited" shit). I think I'll keep a subscription at least for a little while after the trial, anyway, as $10 a month for at least a month or two isn't too bad, assuming I don't keep it for even longer. I do think that while the "Griffin" model was already pretty damn good, I've definitely seen improvement with the "Dragon" model.
[1] - E.g. having another character who wasn't present (particularly if it was a new character that had never been in the story at all before) just start suddenly speaking as though they'd been there all along, having Cydrax or Kana decide to end the conversation and leave before I was ready for that, or having a "suddenly, you hear a strange noise"/"a gunshot suddenly rang out" type of situation. Honestly, though, with the "Dragon" model, the truly non sequitur shit has been few and far between. Less noticeable than with the "Griffin" model, anyway.
